Results tagged ‘ Robbie Grossman ’
When it comes to evaluating how well a draft worked out for a franchise be it baseball, football, hockey, basketball or really any other sport I am one who always feels that 5 years is a fairly reasonable time frame. Of course in baseball and to some extent hockey the evaluations have to be done a little differently because not everyone from those drafts are going to be established players but for the most part we should have a fairly good idea as to what kind of player they are. Typically speaking I think the 5th professional year for a draft class, particularly and MLB one is a huge year. The quick risers are likely in their 3rd pro season or so, the slow risers are likely entering their first full season or just ready to contribute and the wildcards are likely on their final chance. Its been five years since Neal Huntington’s first draft class and of course 2013 will be that class’s 5th full year of professional baseball experience. So according to my rule of thumb it should be a big year for them and indeed it is. To my research there are twelve players who still have at least some level of significance to the Pirates franchise, I have broken down those 12 into 6 different categories and will discuss what the 2013 season holds for them. Think of this as a primer for what to look for out of the 2008 draft class this season.
Organizational Players: Benjamin Gonzalez, Jeremy Farrell, Zachary Foster
Essentially this group has no expectations for the 2013 season. The three above players were drafted and signed in 2008 but have evolved into organizational filler; they will likely serve as bench depth or bullpen arms for one or multiple levels in 2013. They aren’t expected to contribute to the major league team and at this point really have no discernible prospect value. +
Wildcards: Jarek Cunningham, Quinton Miller
Cunningham and Miller are not that far from bien organizational players but both remain in the system and unlike the three organizational players I have listed do have somewhat of a ceiling. Cunningham is capable of playing 2B and has plus power for the position and Miller was a fairly highly regarded prep pitcher at the time he was drafted. Both of them face uphill climbs to ever make the majors let alone become a significant contributor there but each of them have enough upside that they will have essentially one last chance to rebound in 2013 and show they have some value. Miller is likely to work out of the bullpen at A+, a level he’ll be playing at for a 3rd season and at 23 years old is pushing the high side for a prospect at that level. If he shows signs of progress the Pirates may opt to send him to AA early on to give him one last chace but that appears highly unlikely. Cunningham is a little farther along than Miller as he will likely repeat AA this season and should be the starting 2B. At 23 years old he isn’t a terrible age for the AA level but another failed year could prove costly to the little prospect status he has remaining. There is a little more hope for Cunningham than Miller as he showed progress last season with his plate discipline, if he can manage to build off that, refind his power and stay healthy (something that has been a struggle for him) there is a chance he could regain his prospect status. Cunningham is facing an uphill climb but it appears he at least has a fighting chance.
Major League Depth: Matt Hague, Michael Colla
Not much to say about these two. Hague and Colla are essentially organizational players but they have advanced far enough along that either one could be potential non horrible at the major league level meaning they will serve as depth in 2013. Hague is well known by Pirates fans because of his hot spring training last year and the fact he subsequently made the Pirates bench. He struggled with his chances with the big club though and spent most of 2012 in AAA. Hague doesn’t really profile to hit for much power so his ceiling at the major league level is limited. Hague will almost certainly start the 2013 season off in AAA but this year he won’t have a starting position and will be forced into a utility role. The utility role could be a good thing for Hague though as his best chance of making it back to the majors is probably as a utility player who can make decent contact. Colla has spent the last two years in the AA rotation. His numbers over that time are actually fairly decent. In reality he doesn’t profile as a starter and unless he returns to AA for another season will not be one in 2013 but as a reliever he has a chance to become a decent depth middle reliever who could fill in at the major league level when injuries or ineffectiveness occurs. Colla and Hague don’t come with much upside and aren’t really players that will determine if the 2008 draft was a success or failure but 2013 will be a pivotal year in determining whether either one can carve out some sort of a major league career.
Slow Movers: Justin Wilson, Jordy Mercer, Chase d’Arnaud
Wilson, Mercer and d’Arnaud are ultimately going to play a large role in determining how well the 2008 draft worked for the Pirates. A good rule of thumb is that a good draft should give you 3 solid major league contributors. Well the Pirates have one who we will discuss later and have one more who could pay some dividends for them at the major league level but if they are to get any additional help from this class it is going to have to come from these three players. Wilson undoubtedly has the highest upside of the bunch as if he were able to find some control he has the stuff to be a top of the rotation arm. Mercer and d’Arnaud look like their ceiling is likely a major league average shortstop and that may be pushing it. At the end of the day three solid major league contributors doesn’t mean three superstars essentially if the team is able to draft one very good regular, a solid back end reliever and a good bench option it has had a decent year. None of these three except maybe Wilson look like they will develop into a solid regular but they all look like potential secondary pieces. Each player has two options remaining meaning they could in theory be brought back next season if they fail to establish themselves but in reality this is a big year for all three. Should any of them not establish themselves as at least a serviceable major league player they will be in great risk of being removed from the roster after the season and unless claimed by another team that usually severely hurts a player’s chances of having a good major league career.
Traded: Robbie Grossman (Wandy Rodriguez)
The importance of Robbie Grossman who was the key piece in the Wandy Rodriguez deal might often get overlooked when discussing the success or failure of the 2013 draft but it shouldn’t be. Grossman may no longer be in the system but the reason teams have prospects is not for only developing them for their own use but for using them to acquire major league talent through trades, in short they are assets. How Grossman performs this season is largely irrelevant to how the Pirates 2008 draft should be viewed but how his return, Wandy Rodriguez, performs is in my mind a critical part of it. Rodriguez is an established major league and a good performances by him in 2013 will help push up the value the Pirates were able to get out of the 2008 draft. As I stated this will be often overlooked but in my mind the return for Robbie Grossman may very well end up being the 2nd most important aspect of the 2008 draft.
Fast Movers: Pedro Alvarez
At the end of the day the performance of the other 11 players I’ve discussed mean very little compared to the draft 1st round pick. The success or failure of that draft will forever be linked to how Alvarez performs in his career as a Pirate. Last season saw some encouraging progress from Alvarez at the major league level but the strike out rate was too high. Alvarez at this point is an established major league player and looks like he has a strong chance of developing into a regular however his upside is so much more. He possess the power needed to develop into a true impact bat. This upcoming 2013 season will be crucial to his development. If he is able to build off his success in 2012 Alvarez begins looking like a cornerstone player but if he struggles like he did in 2011 he will once again look like a big bust. As his fortunes go so will the fate of the 2008 draft. Even in an optimist scenario where Wilson develops into a solid middle of the rotation arm, Mercer is able to be a decent place holder at the shortstop position for a year or two, d’Arnaud starts to hit and becomes a good spark plug off the bench, Cunningham regains his prospect value and Hague or Colla carves out a major league niche for themselves the 2008 draft will still feel light on talent if Alvarez fails to produce. In order for him to be a success and by extension the 2008 draft Alvarez doesn’t have to perform all that much better than his 2012 numbers going forward but he has to prove that he can that type of player and not be subject to wild down seasons like 2011; building off of 2012 and taking another step, even a small step forward would go a long way in proving just that.
What Do The Pirates Have to Give Up?
In this installment I will look at the Pirates prospects eligible for the Rule V draft. The Pirates will not be able to protect everyone and while this year’s crop isn’t as strong as some these are players the Pirates should look to trade in order to avoid a roster crunch in the offseason.
Locks To Be Added: Victor Black, Tony Sanchez, Robbie Grossman
Borderline to be Added: Tim Alderson, Stefan Welch, Ramon Cabrera, Jarek Cunningham, Brock Holt, Jeffrey Inman, Phillip Irwin
Interesting But Won’t Be Added: Andrew Lambo, Quincy Latimore, Aaron Poreda, Aaron Pribanic, Hunter Strickland, Nathan Baker, Yhonathan Barrios, Ryan Beckman, Jorge Bishop, Jodaneli Carvajal, Evan Chambers, Zachary Fuesser, Elevys Gonzalez, Samuel Gonzalez, Quinton Miller, Gift Ngoepe, Carlos Paulino, Rinku Singh
First lets get a little background on all the listed players
Victor Black: Black is pitching well in AA and looks like a good back of the bullpen prospect. He is in a similar mold to Duke Welker and will be definitely added to the roster.
Tony Sanchez: Sanchez was not so long ago the 4th overall pick in the draft and while he has lost some luster he still looks like he should be a serviceable major league starting catcher as early as midway through next season.
Robbie Grossman: Grossman is having a down season but he put up strong numbers last season and was considered a borderline top 100 prospect coming in to the year. He shows great plat discipline and will definitely be added.
Tim Alderson: Alderson has posted a good season and is now back on the prospect map. He isn’t what he once was but the potential is still in there some where and now since he has rebounded it is possible a team could take a shot on him.
Stefan Welch: The Pirates picked up Welch as a minor league free agent and at the time it appeared to be a minor move but fast forward and now the Pirates have a 23 year old prospect tearing up AA and playing a good 3B. Times have changed. Edit: As was pointed out by guapo in the comments my brief blurb seems to paint Welch as a prospect. My intention was to say that if he keeps his current level up or something close to it the Pirates will have a decision on their hands. If he falls back to earth he obviously wouldn’t be protected nor selected.
Ramon Cabrera: Coming into the season Cabrera was considered the Pirates second best catching option. He is having a bit of a down season in AA but could still draw interest from someone. I doubt the Pirates will add him with Sanchez having to be added so maybe he can attract some attention.
Jarek Cunningham: I was tempted to put Cunningham in the lock category but I realized I’m not sure how the Pirates view him. Cunningham has good power potential from 2B or 3B but has missed a few years due to injury. I would think he’d be drafted in the Rule V draft so I would think eh could be a trade piece this season.
Brock Holt: With Chase d’Arnaud and JordyMercer already on the 40 man roster the Pirates have their fair share of players like Holt. Holt is having his second solid season in AA but the Pirates are not moving him up. They could choose to add him to the roster but it would probably have to be at the expense of d’Arnaud. Holt would not have a ton of value but as a player who looks to have the floor of a utility infielder and the ceiling of an average 2B/SS in the majors he could attract some attention in trades.
Jeffrey Inman: If Inman were in another system he’d seem like the typical Pirate Rule V selection. Inman has a ton of potential but is injury prone and has missed a lot of time. Inman is now in AA and although he is struggling he has the upside that some team could take a flier on him and try to hide him in the bullpen.
Phillip Irwin: Irwin is a starter in AA and looks like he could be a decent back of the rotation arm some day. The Pirates probably won’t add him to the roster but he is advanced enough where he could probably be kept in someone’s bullpen all next season. His trade value would probably be minimal though.
Zach Dodson: Thank you to Kevin who pointed out in the comments that Dodson is not eligble until 2013. My reference material said 2012 and even though that seemed off to me I went with it.
Interesting Players Who Won’t be Added: I’m not going to bother breaking down this group but basically it breaks down into two groups. One group (Lambo, Latimore, Pribanic, Poreda, Strickland, Baker, Beckman, Chambers, E Gonzalez) are players in the upper levels who could probably hold down a spot on a 25 man roster but who’s numbers would be easily replaceable. Essentially they are all 24th and 25th type guys. The other group (Barrios, Bishop, Carvajal, S Gonzalez, Ngoepe, Singh) are players in the low levels who have a lot of talent but are too raw and too far away to have any chance at sticking on a roster all year. I left out three players, Fuesser, Miller and Paulino because they are slightly different. Paulino is an interesting defensive first catcher who has shown offensive ability but is only in the middle levels. Fuesser is a middle level lefty reliever who has some upside. Miller is a starting pitcher with a ton of talent but who has yet to produce any results. Some of the too young groups may be attractive as secondary lottery tickets in a deal.
The Pirates best most attractive pieces are obviously the 3 players who are a lock to be added, Grossman, Sanchez and Black. Any of those 3 could be attractive to other teams and be a key piece in acquiring a good rental or a secondary piece in acquiring a longer term piece.
The next most attractive group are Welch, Cabrera and Cunningham. Any of those 4 players could be a piece that could land the Pirates a good rental or even be a minor part of another trade.
Alderson, Holt, Inman and Irwin are all guys who could probably net a low cost rental but not much more. Their value are similar to the other 4 but are probably slightly less because of their limited upside.
The final group as far as trade value consists of potential throw ins and lottery tickets.
Just my opinion but …
|1||Starling Marte, OF|
|2||Josh Bell, OF|
|3||Robbie Grossman, OF|
|4||Tony Sanchez, C|
|5||Jordy Mercer, SS|
|6||Jarek Cunningham, 2B|
|7||Alex Dickerson, 1B|
|8||Matt Curry, 1B|
|9||Yamaico Navarro, 3B|
|10||Matt Hague, 1B|
|11||Mel Rojas Jr, OF|
|12||Jose Ozuna, 1B|
|13||Willy Garcia, OF|
|14||Drew Maggi, SS|
|15||Gorkys Hernandez, OF|
|16||Alen Hanson, SS|
|17||Ramon Cabrera, C|
|18||Brock Holt, 2B|
|19||Elevys Gonzalez, 3B|
|20||Gift Ngoepe, 2B|
|C||Eric Fryer||C||Tony Sanchez|
|1B||Matt Hague||1B||Matt Curry|
|2B||Chase d’Arnaud||2B||Jarek Cunningham|
|3B||Josh Harrison||3B||Elevys Gonzalez|
|SS||Jordy Mercer||SS||Brock Holt|
|LF||Gorkys Hernandez||LF||Quincy Latmore|
|CF||Starling Marte||CF||Robbie Grossman|
|RF||Nick Evans||RF||Andrew Lambo|
|C||Jose Morales||C||Ramon Cabrera|
|IF||Anderson Hernandez||IF||Gregory Picart|
|OF||Brandon Boggs||OF||Adalberto Santos|
|DH||Jeff Clement||DH||Jeremy Farrell|
|C||Carlos Paulino||C||Samuel Gonzalez|
|1B||Alex Dickerson||1B||Jose Osuna|
|2B||Gift Ngoepe||2B||Dan Gamache|
|3B||Andy Vasquez||3B||Eric Avila|
|SS||Drew Maggi||SS||Alen Hanson|
|LF||Evan Chambers||LF||Rodarick Jones|
|CF||Mel Rojas Jr||CF||Wes Freeman|
|RF||Dan Grovatt||RF||Josh Bell|
|C||Elias Diaz||C||Kawika Emsley-Pai|
|IF||Kelson Brown||IF||Kirk Snger|
|OF||David Rubinstein||OF||Taylor Lewis|
|DH||Justin Howard||DH||Chris Lashmet|
Alex Presley: In my opinion Alex Presley is the key to the Pirates having a top notch outfield this season. After surging through the minor leagues the last two seasons Presley got his first real chance last season and did not disappoint. In addition to the speed, defense and contact skills we all expected he even showed a little bit of power with a slugging percentage of .465. Presley has the speed and the defensive skills to make patrolling the Pirates rather large home left field no issue at all. The question is rather is his bat sustainable. I this point I can’t think of a reason not to expect it to be; I see him hitting for a line of roughly .280/.340/.450. That would make him a very solid left fielder. If Presley does reach my projection he (and Tabata and McCutchen) will give the Pirates a very strong outfield and top of the batting order.
Nate McLouth: McLouth will be the backup for all three outfield spots but I believe he was signed primarily as an insurance policy in case Presley’s magic ride ends. For this reason I am considering him a left fielder for this season. There is no reason to expect McLouth to return to his 2008/09 but I think a return to his old stomping grounds will allow him to improve on his past two seasons numbers. McLouth will assume the 4th outfielder job, the Pirates had him penciled in for all along and I think he will succeed in such a role. McLouth has a good speed/power mix which I think will prove to be a perfect combination for his new lesser role with the Pirates.
Robbie Grossman: Grossman made a huge splash last season with a great showing in A+ ball. He quickly rose into the Pirates top 10 prospect. Grossman will likely mostly play CF in AA this year but he profiles best as a corner outfielder hence his inclusion as a left fielder prospect. Now the questions are how will Grossman adjust from moving to a hitter friendly park to a pitcher friendly park, how will his hammate injury affect him and how we he handle the brighter spotlight that will be on him? He has the pedigree of a guy who should be a rather successful player. However with all those factors working against him I think Grossman is going to take a step back this season. I don’t see him having a horrible season in AA but it won’t be near the level of what people are expecting. I think his hammate injury and the jump in the level of competition will be the two largest factors limiting him.
Wes Freeman: It wasn’t to the extent of Grossman but Freeman had his only little breakout season last year. Like Grossman, Freeman will likely be spending most of 2012 in center field but long term he appears to be a better fit for a corner spot. Freeman had a few disappointing seasons in 2008-10 and was likely on his last chance last season when he made his big strides forward. It should be noted that his breakout came in short season ball so he still has a long way to go before he can move into the top prospect crowd. This year should be Freeman’s first full year in full season ball and while I like how much he has progressed I know he is still a project who will probably struggle initially. I think we will see encouraging signs late in the season but I think this is going to be a relatively rough season for Freeman.
Candon Myles: Myles was drafted as a high school senior in the 12th round. He received a decent signing bonus amount of 125K so the Pirates must think fairly highly of him. He received limited playing time (6 AB) in rookie ball last season and considering he is only 19 he will likely either repeat rookie ball or play in short season ball. Myles best tool is his speed and he loves to use it on the bases. He has a small stature so he doesn’t project to hit for much power and probably is best suited for center field. I am listing him as a replacement for Cayones and because he is the remaining outfield prospect I am the highest on. I am expecting a very good season from Myles but since he is so young and at such a low level his prospect status will not be affected much.
Summary: One of the Pirates organizational strengths is the outfield and left field is no exception. In the short term Alex Presley will man the position and there is no real reason to think that his play will not be at least acceptable. The Pirates also have a few interesting prospects who project best as left fielder in Grossman and Freeman. Some fans may be concerned by the lack of power the Pirates have coming from left field but to be honest in recent seasons left field has been becoming less and less of a power hitting position. With Presley (or Tabata), two good prospects and the chance a CF could slide over the Pirates should have no real problem filling the left field position for 2012 and for the short term future.